Is there free will?
Author:
wktd
03 12th, 2010 in
sbbbs.com
edit
Just because someone, or something (God), knows what the outcome will be, does not mean you didn't choose it.
A person could have CHOSEN something differntly, and God would have know THAT outcome.
This is tacitly impossible.
Let us assume Bob is a person. Bob has never in his life heard of, seen, smelled, or been within 100 miles of so much as a single ethanol molecule. For him, alcohol is entirely non-existent.
Can Bob choose to stop being an alcoholic? Of course not. Alcohol is not part of his past. He cannot choose contrary to his past and his current inputs.
The brain follows the standard computational loop -- Current State + Input = Output & State-change.
This loop leaves no room for free will. Any choice we make is entirely predicated on our past and our present situation. We cannot make a choice against these things. Since choices are made by a neural system, these choices are effectively deterministic -- put a person back into the exact same state, provide the exact same input, and they'll react, guaranteed, exactly the same and move to exactly the same next-state.
In essence, we are nothing but glorified computers with some really nifty peripherals.
Atheists, by providing facts to the theists, hope to influence their current state (which become past states) to include facts that eventually will be the favored facts in the computation. Even if they are not favored, because the theist has been exposed to the idea, it is part of their past states and it will influence them, even if it is rejected.
You cannot escape the effects of your perceptions. They may be minimalized in comparison to other facts but they are still THERE.
------------
GOODZILLA: It's nothing more than the application of the Church-Turing Thesis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church-turi... ). The only major step that I leave out is that there are three modes of computation possible in the given universe (ours): Neural networks (brain), Cellular Automata (Dr. Conway's 'Game of Life'), and the turing machine (A PC). All three are provably equivalent. Since the neural network is provably equivalent to the turing machine, Church-Turing Thesis comes into play.
Go to the nearest university's book store and look for the text book for whatever course in Computer Science they have similiar to 'Theory of Computation' or 'Computational Theory'. This analysis comes directly from that field.
-----------
Loki: Yes, it does. In that case, their past still includes the formative stages of their development, that is, the stochaistic wiring of their brain in the first place. One may consider this wiring process a state-change scenario of its own.
This does not mean you don't have volition. You are the one deciding what to do, it's just that your decision could be predicted with a good degree of accuracy if the entire quantum state of your brain were known. I say a high degree of accuracy rather than complete accuracy because below the atomic level there is a certain amount of quantum uncertainty which might affect you in such a way that you did something different. This effect, though, is very small and you are still left with no free will, just the possibility of a variation in results.
This does not mean that everyone does everything the same. Nor does it mean that you will do the same thing every time. Just that if you could re-experience the exact same moment in time, you would almost always do the exact same thing.
Still, atheists try to convince theists that theism is wrong because this (and every other answer that you read and everything else you experience) alters the inputs in your brain. The next time you make a choice, this answer might affect your decision.
But if you look at it from the perspective that although our situations can limit us, we still make choices everyday that determine who we are, our relationship with others, and how our lives will end up, we do have freewill. We can always choose between vanilla and chocolate. We can decide to stop being a theif. We can decide whether to believe in a god or not. People may be more likely to make one choice or another based on circumstances, but probablity does not take away choice.
Edit: Quite interesting, JP. (I LOVE this guy's mind!) Can you recommend a good book on the subject? I've never really read anything about it:-(
Thanks :)
Free will is limited to: 'not overstepping others' rights.'
We are all using it here...because of it I chose to live as a servant of God, because of it atheists chose to not believe in God....and God never forced himself to anyone...
See JP's response. He is correct.
I don't believe everything has been planned by any sort of God/Gods/Aliens.
To me free will is just the right to choose what you will do next whether it be logical or not depends on how you may feel at any given moment.
Or maybe we've all been told we have free will when in fact we do not. Who really knows?
Gee, J.P., does that also apply to newborns?
#If you have any other info about this subject , Please add it free.# |
